Wednesday, February 7, 2007

Oppressor-Oppressed: Vicious Cycle?

Jay Krieger discusses a brief example of a vicious cycle of the oppressed being oppressors.


Amy said...


Very good point, and the bottom line is.... should we do translating our vlogs? It is not the same with captioning straight voice to text... it is translating ASL to English.

Wish we could have a pool of ASL interpreters working with us for translating. I am not a translator/interpreter and I don't like to 'gloss' my ASL on my vlogs.

The process is very time consuming... and your vlog is telling us to do what?

Let our conscience tell us?

I feel way, way too guilty already!

Amy Cohen Efron

JFLMad said...

I disagree with what you said. Why? we both are Deaf therefore we don't need you to put the captioned on vlogs for us.

Your point about the medias, TV's etc that we nag them to put the closed captioned for us...we nag them over and over cuz all the medias, TV's, etc are spoken in English and we don't understand what they are saying. And also they have the people that do the job of putting the closed captioned for us. They get paid for it, etc, etc.

You just do the vlogs on your volunteer basis therefore we should not complain about anything at all!

Kristi said...

There is a difference. Film companies have money to pay for translators to type in captionings, so the inconveience for them isn't really time/effort but money. We are not being compensated for the time invested in putting captions in our vlogs, and that may be where the "ugh" comes in. As technology improves to the point where putting in captioning is much faster and easier, we will see more vlogs with captionings. The more the demand for it, the captioning makers may be motivated to make it more easier.


SDA said...

Jay, I beg to differ. :-)

While I understand what you are attempting to point out. However, I think we are talking about two different things.

The money-making corporations not captioning TV news, show programs, etc. vs. indivdual (non-profit) vlogs without captions. I don't think they can be used for parallel comparsion in identifying oppression or mistreatment.

I know there are many vlogs or video shows online that are audio-based, intended for non-Deaf people. They do not bother to have them captioned. We are not raising ruckus about that. We understand that they are intended for non-Deaf audience. So, our signed vlogs - they are intended for Deaf audience.

A better analogy would probably be like this - let's say we have a money-making ASL TV channel that has various shows in ASL showing 24/7 and we do not bother to caption or have a voice-over vs. the money-making corp without captioning...

Make sense? ;-)

Barinthus said...

I understand what you are saying but however I have to disagree.

This is apple and orange comparsion. As a member of a minority group (Deaf), we are constantly at the risk and subjected to the whims and ignorance of the majority (hearing). For instance so many deaf infants are being cochlear implanted out of hearing parents' benevolent ignorance. One day there will be computers that will be entirely voice-based and where does that leave us?

We do not have the same amount of power over our daily lives that the hearing people does over our lives.

To deny deaf people captions is to effectively blocking us out of the general society. To deny hearing people captions is what? An act of minor inconvenience?

It's like a student from Spanish speaking family learning English in California - he struggles while a student from English speaking family learns French in Quebec excels. Why? Answer is simple - The Spanish speaker is of a minority group and is under considerable pressure while the English speaker is of the majority group and has nothing to lose by learning French.

My friend, this is orange and apple issue.

Teri said...

As I said in my previous blog, a response to RFW's entry on hearies ...

It is the relation between an oppressor group and an oppressed group.

No win & win situation, really. It will always exist.

It's us (or YOU) who have to ACCEPT any consequences of actions or inactions.

So, just do your best!

J.J. said...

Hi Jay,

1.) I enjoy your vlogs.

2.) I agree that subtitling is tough. I just subtitled a 45 second video...took a while..but I am getting better at it.

3.) It's your blog/vlog and your decision. I can see why you don't feel like doing it

4.) Personally, if I ever have a vlog, I will subtitle it or offer a transcript or perhaps a synopsis, but that's just me.

5.) For the CC people, they have the equipment to make it easy. I once visted the WGBH captioning center in Boston, MA as a kid (maybe 20 years ago) and the captioner had a "wheel" to rotate the video forwards/backwards very easily..and she could stop the video instantly and type in something then proceed...rewind...type...with relative ease. I imagine that it is much easier these days witht he proper technology.

6.) Speaking of CC, did anyone see the article about a new voice recongiztion CC program for videos at Oklahoma State Univseity? Apparently, it has a 80% accuracy.. Not realted to this vlog, but wanted to mention it here anyway.

-J.J. Puorro

Jay said...


Thank you for your comments. I totally agree with your points regarding that if the medias have money, manpower, and equipment to do captioning, they should caption.

I guess my example, even though I felt was valid late last night, was not a good example. Look at Lonelygirl15 -- a new "interactive" reality (not so real after the masses found out it was produced with actress) show -- not even captioned... Actually I would like us to shift away from my discussion on captioning which I now acknowledge to be a bad/weak example.

(On side note: If anybody offers a translated transcript I think I would take avantage of that as it isn't that difficult to add it to the blog, under the VLog.)

However, I still believe my original message on the oppressor-opressed cycle itself remains valid in other areas in our lives. I will need to think up of examples and either post them here or make a new VLog on this.

JJ - See my next blog, on the automated captioning by OSU. We made contact with them and will share with you, my dear viewers, their response.

BEG said...

I don't know...I do understand that the process of subtitling (translating) is yet more complex than captioning (eg, same language audio/visual). However, not all deaf people seeing the vlogs understand ASL. They may be nonsigning American deaf OR they may be signers but in a different sign language. I don't give a flying f*** about the hearies, but I do wonder if we shoot ourselves in the foot by splintering up amongst us deafies.

Larry Littleton said...

What Price Communication?

I think your Vlog about oppression was a GREAT example!

Communication is tough, no matter HOW we cut it.
Do we want to communicate with a FEW, or do we want to communicate with the WORLD?

Someone said, "We are deaf, so we don't need captions." This is such a narrow way of thinking. Apparently this person has never met someone who has recently become deaf. I work with LOTS of people who have lost their hearing, are learning to cope, WANT to learn ASL, but need help.
Does our new "Deafhood" theory leave them out in the cold?

You are SO right...we are oppressing the oppressed!

The issue of film companies and money...oh only takes TIME and WANT. If you WANT to communicate, then you'll take the TIME to do it.

This is why I have yet to do my own Vlog. I haven't figured out the captions, and I won't do it until I have it RIGHT.

Michele said...

Wow you present an interesting dilemna. I think it is all so new to us that sometimes we aren't clear yet. Hopefully someone will find an answer in developing software or new technology that is beneficial for deaf and hearing alike to make communication more accessible on the internet and remove the barriers. If you could give us different examples and then we could brainstorm possible solutions to it, that would be helpful in understanding what we are lacking in. Many shows in "YouTube" are not captioned, these programs are very popular among hearing people. Unfortunately, deaf teens are missing out on these fads.

Oscar the Observer said...

Interesting. However, I do agree witht he majority because vlogs are our personal media and aimed mostly at the ASL signers. We can not no more ask Spanish bloggers to translate their blogs to English. However, I tend to put in synopsis with my vlog so it would be easier for anyone to get general outline of my discussion because it is easier to have "skim reading" if you read a nonfiction book so you can get the general idea and basic order of ideas so I apply that principle to my vlog briefly.

Mikey said...

Hey Jay,

I understand your point about putting CC or subtitles on the vlogs...

I do make several vlogs myself and I choose NOT to put subtitles or English translation on each vlog. If I do want to have hearing or non-signers to read my vlogs, I will be more than happy to put either CC or english translation.

Now, when you look at all youtube videos. Do you see any of them being CC'ed or subtitled? (Excluded are our vlogs in our community which some have CC and subtitles) Most hearing people who make vlogs do not put translation therefore we do the same as them. Not being oppressed nor oppressing others... just the way it is.

If the vloggers want to put CC, that's fine by me, I personally prefer none. Makes the viewing more enjoyable.

Just my 2¢ here...